SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Suck It Up. It's Mackenzie here, and today I sat down with someone I have the privilege of calling one of my very good friends, Seon James. You may know Seon as one of the starting five from this past season's Duke men's basketball team. Seon helped lead the team to an overall 35 wins to four losses on the season, an Atlantic Coast Conference title, a number one ranking spot in the AP Top 25 men's basketball poll, and of course, a place in the NCAA tournament Final Four. Wow. And this wouldn't be a proper sports podcast if I didn't list some of his personal stats and achievements. And there are a lot just from this past year alone. He is just one of 15 student athletes nationally named the 2024-2025 Academic All-American Men's Basketball Team for NCAA D1. So yes, he's got the brains too. Sian's gonna laugh at that part. He was also named to the ACC All-Defensive Team, coming in at number three in the conference in assist turnover ratio. For those who aren't fluent in basketball, just know that is very impressive. And in March, he was honored and is a member of the inaugural All-State NACDA Good Works Team, man, that was a mouthful, which recognizes 20 standout student athletes across collegiate winter sports for their exceptional achievements in community service, athletics, and academics. He even started the Sion James Foundation, which focuses on community service initiatives to help disadvantaged groups within the local community. As you can see, Sion is your pretty average guy. Just kidding, he is anything but. And now, just to put the cherry on top, he's prepping for the 2025 NBA Draft. A couple weeks ago, he partook in the NBA Draft Combine. Just to emphasize how big of a deal that is, only 75 players are invited. That's including all collegiate players and international players as well. Before Duke, Seon played for Tulane University, which is where he and I first met. For three years, we served as co-presidents together on the Student Athlete Advisory Committee, better known as SAC. As co-presidents, we actively advocated for the wants, needs, and well-being of the student athletes we repped, while also organizing anything and everything from community service outings to mental health events. We spend the first few minutes today just catching up and discussing the NBA Draft Combine from two weeks ago before getting to the meat of the episode in which we dive into Seon's mentality towards basketball and how it's helped him excel in pressure-filled moments. From fourth grade basketball through the high school recruiting process to playing in the NCAA Final Four and now the pros, with every stressful and nerve-wracking moment, Seon reminds himself of two very important concepts you'll hear throughout the episode. Number one, take it back to the basics and bring fun back into the game. And number two, just keep showing up and doing the work. And of course, this episode has plenty of laughs as well. This conversation and hearing Sian's perspective was so refreshing, and I hope you get just as much out of it as I did. Feel free to jump around to certain parts of this episode. I've included timestamps in the show notes down below. Without further ado, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02: 3:22

Not right now, not right now. But how are you?

SPEAKER_01: 3:36

The good news is I'm good. Houston's been good to me. I've been here just working out. Pretty much the same thing as you, getting in shape, working out. I was in Chicago last week for the NBA Combine, which was fun.

SPEAKER_02: 3:50

Working

SPEAKER_01: 3:51

out in front of teams and stuff. It was kind of cool. It's a crazy process. It's crazy how everything played out. Now I'm here talking NBA teams. About to be an NBA player. This is nuts. It still hasn't really hit me

SPEAKER_00: 4:11

yet. That's insane. Are you with all the other top college prospects? Or

SPEAKER_01: 4:21

how does that work? So college and international, it's like invite. They invite the top 75 NBA prospects, whether you're from college or there are some like Asian and like European players do. And you come and you do like interviews with the team and they do measurements for like your height, your weight, your all that stuff. And then you do like physical testing. Yeah. It's like sprint test, vertical. stuff and then some live drills and then some scrimmages so it's literally just like come here for it's a it's a it's a week-long tryout essentially that says we're going to test every everything about your basketball game from the physical to the mental to the everything shows that you're ready basically and all the teams bring all their personnel there so you get to try out in front of every team all at once and

SPEAKER_00: 5:15

So they're basically just like standing on the side with like a clipboard, just watching you do everything.

SPEAKER_01: 5:20

Exactly. But they're up in the stands at the gyms. Like you're on the court and they're up in the stands and you just look around and you see a whole bunch of guys like sitting up all straight with their legs crossed and like agents are everywhere talking to all the team. And it's just so much going on. And like everyone's, it's funny because it all, you would think it's so like this big, so serious thing. It's literally like everyone's at a hotel. Like they put us up in like the Marriott. And all the NBA people are there in the Marriott. And all the team interviews are in hotel rooms where they just move out the beds and stuff and put desks. And everyone eats. It was like a big cafeteria for everyone. That's just a ballroom where they bring in hotel food. It's crazy. And then the arena is attached to the hotel, so you don't even have to walk outside. You just walk down the thing to the arena. And then you go play and then you go back upstairs. And I spent like, I spent the week like lifting in the hotel weight room. Yeah. You'd think it's this big serious thing, but it isn't. And it was just so funny to me.

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

I'm just imagining all of these, you know, like the team personnel just watching you and you just feel like you're just like an ant, like being observed and you're just like, ah, freaking out.

SPEAKER_01: 6:41

And like, they are watching you. So I guess it is like kind of serious, but I'm looking around and I'm like,

SPEAKER_02: 6:45

yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 6:46

like I was kind of having fun. Like maybe the year Duke prepared us for that. Cause people come and watch us all the time, but like, I didn't really care. I was just out there chilling. I got to see my, my teammates from Duke again. I haven't seen them in a month. I got to see like some

SPEAKER_02: 7:00

friends

SPEAKER_01: 7:01

and I was having a good, I saw RJ, RJ and his family. So like, I was just hanging out. Yeah. We went to dinner.

SPEAKER_00: 7:09

Oh, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 7:10

So, I was just chilling. Like I wasn't, I wasn't taking it nearly seriously as I probably needed to, but I had a good time. I played well, showed well in front of everyone, but it was cool. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 7:20

Did you make any new international friends?

SPEAKER_01: 7:23

I did actually. It's crazy. There was a French dude on our team who played at Stanford. So we had played against them and he actually, he reminded me of Otan, which is why I think we got along so well. Cause he was like this seven, seven foot, super sweet French dude, really cracking jokes, like a thick accent. It was awesome. It was great.

SPEAKER_00: 7:41

Yeah. Literally when I think of you at all times, I'm like, if I see you playing in the game, like, Ooh, this could be a really nerve wracking situation for him. And then I just see you and I'm like, yeah, he's fine.

SPEAKER_01: 7:57

It hasn't always been like that

SPEAKER_00: 7:59

at all times.

SPEAKER_01: 8:00

Man, it was, yeah. I mean, I guess that's the point of the podcast. It certainly hasn't always been like that, but I'm glad that now I can just go and I'm playing a game and it's like serious because it's my job, but it's not that serious because it's a

SPEAKER_02: 8:12

game.

SPEAKER_01: 8:13

And for me, that's like the kind of mindset I try to take into it and it's worked well for me.

SPEAKER_00: 8:20

Oh, a hundred percent. That's what I definitely wanted to get into with you. Especially because I want to take a few minutes to talk about your backstory too, because I saw... I never knew this about you, but I saw, it was like a random interview. It was on my Instagram For You page. And you told someone, you were like, I didn't even want to play basketball.

SPEAKER_01: 8:42

Yeah. My parents basically forced me to play. I was playing football with all my friends, and none of my friends played basketball. My brother was playing basketball, and my dad was coaching. So they were like, oh, no, just come play. You're just going to be on a team with us just because we already have it. And I was like, all right, fine, whatever. Yeah. And then that next summer, there was like an AAU program that recruited me and my brother. Like, I mean, recruited, but like asked us to join fourth grade. Once again, I didn't want to, but one of the other players' moms was like, but my son's going too, and they can be friends and whatever. And before you know it, I'm on this team. And then my whole world was changing. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't even like

SPEAKER_00: 9:20

that. How old were you when you started? I

SPEAKER_01: 9:24

was in fourth grade the first year I played. So nine, 10. And it's not like I was being held at gunpoint to play, right? They were just like, no, come play because that's what you're going to do. And it took until probably middle school until I actually enjoyed it. And high school before it was like, okay, this is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_00: 9:45

Yeah, yeah. And you said, was your dad a coach or was he just coaching the team?

SPEAKER_01: 9:50

He was just coaching the fourth grade team. Like it wasn't anything serious at all. He was just like, he played in college. She had some background. So he was like, I'll coach the team.

SPEAKER_00: 10:00

Yeah. That's crazy. I like, I remember I, I heard that and I was like, what do you mean? He never wanted to play because it was so different from me because I was like, literally when I started and I was two, I think I literally just started because mom's a coach. Okay. So like, you know, it's natural. My siblings played. So I just grew up watching Lindsay and Harrison who are both like at least eight years older than me. So I was like, well, okay, I kind of want to be like them. So I gotta, I gotta, I gotta do this, you know? But then it was like, as soon as I started, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm addicted. Like I would be like eight years old, like being like going to practice and I'd have a headache and I'd be like, oh mom, I have a headache. And she'd be like, well, do you want to stop? Like we can go home. I was like, no, no, no. Tennis is my drug. Like it's my drug. Like eight years old saying a sport is my drug. Like, okay. I was listening to way too much Kesha, you know,

SPEAKER_01: 10:58

drugs at eight years old.

SPEAKER_00: 11:00

Yeah, no, no, no. I was listening to that one Kesha song. That was like, your love is my drug. Yeah. That was me at eight years old, but that's crazy. Okay. So high school, you obviously start getting a little more, serious, a little more into it, and then you're recruited to Tulane. What was the recruiting process like for you? Were you recruited to a bunch of different schools? Was it one school? Did you know where you wanted to go? What was that like?

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

There was kind of a lot to it. It was over a period of two years was the recruiting process. I didn't play my first year in high school. I tore my ACL, so I was hurt. That whole year, I didn't play. I didn't play that first summer. the first summer, 15U, where coaches can start recruiting you. Big picture didn't mean a thing, but I didn't know that at the time. So I was like all freaking out. And then my sophomore year, I came back, played a good year, like not a great year, but a good year. It was like all region and like our small region, whatever. And then I ended up joining an AU team, like an Adidas sponsor team. It's like one of the few major circuits. And that summer is when I got my first offer. It was, it would have been in like June or something. It was like the first day that schools can offer players. I got an offer to, it was my first offer, JMU, James Madison. They called me one night. And so that was the first one. And then over the course of the next year or so, I got another maybe 15 offers to different schools around the country. Most of them were like higher academic schools. I wasn't like, I was good. I was good at this point, but I wasn't that good. So like, I wasn't getting power offers like that. Like I had Ole Miss. That was the one power offer I did have. But by the end of it, it was like Tulane, Rice and Yale. It just had the perfect mix of everything. I like, we could have a really good academic experience, would have fun where I'm at. I knew our coaches cause they were at Georgia state. So I knew them in Atlanta and got to Tulane. It was just like the perfect mix of everything. Just like I hoped it was.

SPEAKER_00: 13:14

Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of like when I first got there, I was like, I just know this is the school. Like I had other offers that I was like, I was like, gosh, I, but Fionn, we could have, we could have still ended up friends because I was thinking about Yale too. That's kind of

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 13:33

That would have been funny. In a different, in a different life, in a different life. But you said what you were just saying it, So you tore your ACL when you were a freshman in high school? Is that what you said?

SPEAKER_01: 13:46

Yeah. So I played football until my freshman year of high school, tore my ACL in a game, and said, I'm not doing this anymore. And this is at the point where I knew I wanted to just play basketball. So that was going to be my last football season either way. But that expedited the quitting football process for me. And before you know it, I was just a basketball guy.

UNKNOWN: 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:11

Yeah. Yeah. That, um, gosh, that's, I kind of solidified. You're like, all right, see a football. I mean, literally last episode talking with Sorrell, like when he was talking about his ACL injuries and then his meniscus, like it just, it takes such a heavy toll on your body. I can see how it's just like, you know, basketball does too, but I'm like, hopefully you're not getting hit as much. Although I do see you sometimes getting hit and I'm like, Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

Don't get me started, man. I got to start standing on two feet more, man. My goodness. That's something I'm actively working

SPEAKER_00: 14:46

on.

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

Standing on two feet. It's funny as it sounds.

SPEAKER_00: 14:51

You know, a lot of people that listen to this podcast may also be, you know, up and coming high school, maybe in your position. And one of the things you had mentioned was you said like at that time, early recruiting, at one point you were freaking out. Can you elaborate on that? Like maybe like the stressors of, of what was going through your head as like a sophomore when it was recruiting time.

SPEAKER_01: 15:14

Yeah. The truth is I was panicking for no reason. I was panicking really just because I see players around me starting getting offers and start getting schools that they're talking to and start improving their games and getting more attention. And I thought like that meant more than it turned out to mean in reality. It's like, I mean, it's already still the case now. I don't really care anymore. But my game isn't super flashy. I don't really do anything crazy when I'm out there. But a lot of the players who get hyped up early are the ones who have super flashy game or any number of things like that that just garner more attention for themselves. So I was freaking out. I was like, what if I don't go to college? What if I don't go to a school I want to? And all this stuff, not knowing that there is so much time. I was never in a rush. Like most, a lot of players start getting offers around their sophomore year or so. So I was still right on time. A lot of players commit during their senior year. So I was still right on time. Everything worked out so perfectly, but I was just panicking because there were a lot of games I wasn't playing well, or the coaches to school that I wanted to talk to were in the stands. I didn't play well and I was losing it. But it just turned out to be all for nothing, really.

SPEAKER_00: 16:30

Do you remember, like, what would you tell yourself during those times to kind of like, almost pull yourself together like back to present to like perform at the highest level

SPEAKER_01: 16:42

I don't remember what I was telling myself at the time but I remember what I was doing and I was just kind of getting back to work like that's really always been my my mindset through it all like even during the panicking now sometimes it's like all right we'll just get back to work and like There's so much up and down in the course of a career. You've seen it too through your career. But the one thing that stays steady and that has to stay steady is you just have to keep improving and keep working and keep doing what you're supposed to be doing. And I don't know that I had the true perspective to think that at the time, but luckily enough, that's what I was doing. So I just would go back to work, go back to the gym the next morning. And whether I was panicking or not, I would just keep doing what I had to do.

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

That's a great perspective too. I mean, Sure. It's not like you told yourself, Ooh, you know, I had some like fancy saying I told myself every morning, but like literally it was like your, your secret sauce was, I just, I woke up and I just kept doing the work because you knew like, if you kept doing that, it would provide results, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

Yeah. And it's funny. Cause they were like,

SPEAKER_00: 17:47

yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 17:47

I'm not even sure I knew that. That's what I'm saying. Like the way this all worked out, I literally just, I didn't know whether it was going to work or not. I didn't know if it puts out a result. I'm sure it's like mentally it did. I didn't realize that at the time, but it did, but it was literally to me just like, all right, well, this is just the next thing that you're going to go do. You're going to go to the gym because this is just what you do on Monday mornings. Or this was just what you do. Cause it had been like a routine at that point. And if nothing else, it was like, well, at least I'm going to go make myself feel like I'm doing something to, to hype myself up.

SPEAKER_02: 18:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01: 18:18

all right, I don't know if I'm playing well, but at least I'm getting in the gym. So at least I have something to make myself feel better and whatever it was at work.

SPEAKER_00: 18:24

Yeah. Yeah. That is such a huge point too. Like even now, like when I've been like recovering from injury and there are times when I'm just kind of like, I'm sitting around and as I sit around, I'm like, the thoughts are brewing and I'm like, Oh, Oh. And then, so I'm like, you know what, let's just, let's go to the gym. Let's do something. And then as soon as I do that, I'm like, all right, I did that. Like

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

I'm good. Much, much better.

SPEAKER_00: 18:51

Yeah. It's just like, you know, you're just controlling what you can control and it just, it kind of, it brings you back down to earth a little bit, you know? Did you, do you think you got, do you think you got any of that kind of just keep doing the work, keep showing up, keep showing up any of that mindset from your parents or from your brother? Or do you think it really was just like, That's just you and who you are. I

SPEAKER_01: 19:19

think all of the above, I think it became who I was, but I really like my parents were the ones who showed me that. And like they, they, they lived it. It's not something they ever told me, but it's something they lived every single day. My dad would get up, he's a truck driver. So he would get up and he would go to work every, like literally just get up and go to work every single day. My mom's the same way. And they do this all while taking care of me and my brother and the family. And now that I'm an adult and I see what they do and what they used to have to do, I don't know how they did it. My mom used to work. She worked all the way out in Sandy Springs. So she worked like an hour away from home. And she would drive through traffic every day to get there, drive through traffic every day to get back. And then as soon as she gets back, turn around and take us an hour to go to practice and then back. And she did this multiple times a week. And she never complained. She still got everything done. And I'm sure it was hard for her. but it was the example of just like get up and go to work. Yeah. Get up and go to work.

SPEAKER_00: 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

Kind of handle business.

SPEAKER_00: 20:19

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, um, and I, I, I got to meet your parents at one time at that Tulane game and I could kind of see it. I was like, Oh, see, I'm like, just like his mom. Like there was something about it. I was like, Oh, it's just like his mom. But, um, no, it's kind of crazy when you think about it, like how much, um, you soak up from your parents when you're young and like living at home. Like I'm literally the same way, like watching my parents, like go up, get up, get, go to work, like provide for the family. And then like my mom, same thing, like driving me over an hour into New York city to go train every day. Sometimes like employing my grandpa to like drive me if she couldn't make it because of work and like bringing me back. And, like doing whatever they could to just keep the family going. But there was never a, like, there was never really a complaint, you know, like it wasn't like, but a lot of times, like I'll talk to mom about it now. And I would be like, mom, I'm sure like there were times when you were just so stressed, like so overwhelmed. And she was like, yeah, but like, listen, I had you three kids and like the businesses and like everything to keep going. Like I didn't have time. Like I didn't have time to sit around and like, mope or feel sorry for myself. Like I just had to keep going. And like, that's exactly what we're talking about. Reminds me of like our moms, like our dads, like you just have to just keep going. Cause that's just, that's what you do.

SPEAKER_01: 21:49

It's just what you do. Like there are people that rely on you. And like I said, I'm sure it's hard. I know, I know it is looking at it now, but it's just like, do you just have stuff that you got to get done? And like, enough love will make you do anything. Like they love us enough to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. Back to the, that was a good side track on parents. Thank you parents. We love you anyway, but yes, clap, clap. Um, so, okay. So you go through high school, you decide on Tulane. I totally understand your reasons why New Orleans, everything in between greatest city ever. Um, So then your time at Tulane, obviously, and I definitely want to get into your time at Duke too, because it's just like, I'm sure there's such a contrast between like playing at Tulane and playing at Duke. And I definitely want to get into that. But what was your favorite part about playing at Tulane? Like on the team? What was your favorite part about that?

SPEAKER_01: 22:54

I think it was just the purity of being on a team and being around guys that you love and that you would like, eventually we developed a relationship that you'll do anything for. Like early on in my Tulane career, it's like lonely because I'm just made it to New Orleans. I'm 17 years old. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know any of the guys like that yet, but over time we just developed these relationships, like really pure relationships, but just like, guys who want to do stuff together, hang out together, and people who will eventually become my best friends, the people who I will lean on for the rest of my life. And that all just happened from the purity of being on a team with each other. This is all, especially early at Tulane, pre-NIL. So money is not a concern here. It's literally just the fun of playing basketball in a city that you all love with people that you all love. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 23:52

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, pre-NIL. Remember those days?

SPEAKER_01: 23:56

Barely. I sound like an old heady when I even talk to some of these guys about it. Man.

SPEAKER_00: 24:03

Yeah, literally. I'm like, dang, most of my college career was pre-NIL. I'm like, how much are you getting now? I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_02: 24:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 24:10

It's crazy. It's crazy. But yeah, no. There was something different about playing for like, a big city. I don't know what it is. I was so drawn to the aspect of playing in a city. I was like, how cool is that? I'm representing New Orleans. What? Are you kidding me? Tulane, yes, but New Orleans. There was just something about it. It was like... yes it meant something it's like coming from and although I know like you're a team sport and then I'm mostly individual but like I'm sure it's gonna be the same thing coming from like high school to that it's like oh my gosh it's like I have this extra thing when I'm playing on my shoulders it's like my

SPEAKER_02: 24:55

god yeah

SPEAKER_00: 24:55

it's like a little bit more that I'm playing for um but yeah I feel like for most people it could either like make you better or sometimes it could just really weigh on you But I feel like for you, it just, like, you just really rose to that occasion. I mean, you were always, like, I mean, here, sorry, I'm bragging about you, but you were always one of the star, you know, players in the team because you just, like, and you, like, looked like it. You, like, owned the court when you're on it, you know? That's my, like, tennis dramatic terms, you know? You just owned the court, but you did. Like, you had this presence.

SPEAKER_01: 25:29

You were too kind. No, I really just tried to embrace it. Like just embrace what we're doing, embrace what we get to do because I get to play basketball for a living. And that's really cool. I get to like basketball is a reason that I'm at Tulane in a place that I love. And I think that's really cool. And I wanted to make the most out of that. And I really just wanted to like embrace the city. It's understanding that it's somewhere that I'll always have a home now because of that experience. And that helped me on the court too.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

And the other thing with you, like people, people listening, you maybe don't know much about you, besides you know like your stats on the court you're very very active in whatever local community you're in so like for the four years it was the New Orleans community while you were at Duke it was that community what made you I guess like were you always like that were you always that active outside of your sport was that in high school or did begin in college I know like now You have the See on James Foundation. But you were always doing something community service-wise. When did that start and why did you start doing that? I

SPEAKER_01: 26:40

think it started early on. The early parts, my mom used to take me and my brother to do community stuff all the time. We used to go down to Emory University and do the Special Olympics down there with her and her company. So that was just the really early days in probably elementary and middle school. And then like, I was involved in stuff in high school as well, like different leadership teams and whatever the case is. But I think it's something that really took over for me once I got to college, because at that point I have the freedom to just do something I enjoy that has nothing to do with trying to put it on a resume or whatever. It's simply about like doing something that's fun. It's not about trying to get into college or whatever the case is. And there was like a few, a few parts of this, like, One, I was doing with my friends. So that was like, I've always done it with friends. So that's another part of, like, that's just a great part. But it's really just, that was part of me embracing where I'm at and just kind of making the most out of it because New Orleans is a really special place. And there are people in New Orleans that needed help and we are uniquely positioned to help them. And it was, I tried to keep it as simple as that, like just doing what I can for people who are in need. And it was awesome to be able to do that with people that I love too. And it kind of, it put everything into perspective for me because like, I mean, for most of my life, most of my athletic career, basketball has been my life. It has been the thing that I'm most looking forward to do in a day when I wake up in the morning. And that's the beauty of it. Like that's an incredible thing to have. But as I got into college, I didn't realize it at the time. It took a while to realize it. But playing basketball and being a basketball player had become my identity. It was who I was. So when I was having a bad day or a bad game, it was because I was a bad person, like air quotes, like a bad person. And that was weighing on me. And as I got older and like further in my college career, I realized that that was, I don't want to say ridiculous because that would minimize the reality of the things I was feeling, but it's in a sense ridiculous. And like, there was just more, there's just so much more to life and to the college experience and to everything. And all the service I was able to do with Ryan's Giving Tree and through Tulane SAC, it put everything into perspective for me and took the pressure off of playing basketball and allowed me to have fun and improve without the pressure of trying to base my identity on whether a shot goes in or not.

SPEAKER_00: 29:17

That is such a huge part of, being a high level athlete. It's like, I swear, I think every one of us goes through it where it's like your whole, whole self as a person rides on that. I have a good practice today. No. Okay. Well then, you know what? I'm, I basically hate myself for the rest of the day. And like, like, yeah, we laugh about it and yeah, it is ridiculous, but it is so real and it,

SPEAKER_02: 29:48

it's

SPEAKER_00: 29:48

so real and it makes us feel, You know the feeling. It's just this visceral, it hits you at your soul. You're like, if I'm not good at the one thing that I have spent so many hours trying to perfect, and I'm a failure. What else do I have? I'm a failure. But you're a perfect example. You gave yourself all these other outlets where you knew, all right, I just wasn't making my shots today. But you know what I did do this morning? I made a difference in a little boy's life in New Orleans somewhere. So you had that. And that must have just, I don't know, just completed you as a human, not just an athlete.

SPEAKER_01: 30:36

100%. I started to just live more freely. It was a big weight off my shoulders. It was liberating. Honestly, that was a turning point in my, definitely in my college career, but really in my life journey almost.

SPEAKER_00: 30:50

Okay, senior year. I remember you, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that year were you like also going to like pro NBA tryouts while also considering a fifth year? Was that kind of what was going on?

SPEAKER_01: 31:07

Yeah, exactly. So after I finished that, I didn't plan on going back to school at all. I'd entered my name in the NBA draft. I knew I had an extra year of eligibility in my back pocket should I need it. but my plan was to go just be an NBA player. And I went through the early part of the draft process where meeting with teams and all that kind of stuff. But as I was getting feedback from teams, it just put me, like, I just realized that I wasn't in the prime position to be an NBA player at the time, just with teams. They didn't, there weren't enough teams that liked me or valued me highly and give me a good start to my NBA career. And yeah, When I realized that I entered the transfer portal and coach Shire from Duke called and everything from there was history. It's made every, that was just the beginning of what, of like using the fifth year.

SPEAKER_00: 32:02

Yeah. That, um, during when you were kind of, you know, talking with NBA teams and you mentioned like, you felt like maybe you weren't valued as much as you thought you could be. And, Was there ever a time before you got the call from Duke, obviously, was there a time where maybe you started to really even doubt yourself or thoughts crept in where you're like, uh-oh? Or was it all just, you know what? No, I have a plan. I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01: 32:31

For the most part, it was, I have a plan. I know what's going on here. By this point in my career, I'd become more secure in myself and in my game. that I recognize if a team doesn't like me or doesn't value me or whatever the case is. It's not because I'm a bad person, definitely not because I'm a bad player. It's just, they just don't know about me or they just don't like my game and that's okay. And that was it for the most part. But there were some days where I think I was definitely pushing some of the doubt and insecurity down a little bit. Like I'd be in a workout down here, just shooting or whatever. And I miss a few shots in a row. And then I just like lose it spaz, like not spaz, but like complete, the reaction just does not match missing a few shots. And it's just like a much bigger reaction than just that. And I think it's in those moments that I realized I was putting more pressure on myself than I really recognize. And that I wasn't like allowing myself to understand the situation. Basically, like I wasn't giving myself that time to process and I was kind of shoving everything down.

SPEAKER_00: 33:36

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, you can't, but no matter how many times we tell ourselves this, we always do. Cause it's like, it's literally athlete DNA. It's like, no, no, no, just keep it, keep it down. You're fine. Keep it in, keep it in. You'll be okay. But it's like, sometimes you just need it. You just need to let it out. You know, whether it comes out as emotion or frustration, that's important. Like, as you said, you just, sometimes it just comes out and that's fine. And then you just get rid of it, put it to the side.

UNKNOWN: 34:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:08

Okay, your time at Duke. I'm so excited to talk about this. Can you tell? Literally, I kid you not. I know I sent you texts all throughout the season of like, like after the game, but I swear, my mom has never watched a college basketball game on TV in her life. Okay, she's been to like one of your two lane games, but literally, only because she was like, I just want to say hi to see on. Okay. Literally, we're watching on TV. my dad is like glued to the screen. He also like doesn't frequently watch college basketball. Okay. My mom, my mom is like, which one's seen, which one's seen? I'm like number 14, 14. And she's like, Oh my God. She's like, you got, you got like push one time or you fell. And I swear she was like, Oh my gosh. She was, I thought I was like, mom, Mom, he's going to be okay. Like, it's going to be okay. And she was like, no, no, no. Like, I've never seen my mom get so into a college sports match. Like, even one of my matches, I was like, oh, my gosh. But, yeah, so literally, thank you for getting my family into college basketball for the first time in our lives. But, my gosh, I can only imagine, like– I'm just picturing playing in the Tulane Stadium and then going from that, even on a good day, and then going to play at Duke. I'm just like, oh my gosh. I'm picturing in my mind, what would it be like to be a Duke basketball player walking out? Can you just explain, what was it like playing those home games? Even when you guys played UNC, I know that was a big one. What was that like, even just having your name be called and coming out onto the court?

SPEAKER_01: 35:58

Man, well, first of all, your mom, your parents at your matches, they were real chill. So I'm glad I got to get them hyped up a little bit. That's awesome. Playing there was crazy. Like it was one of those things where it just, it truly never got old. I think we played in Cameron's, like we played home games at Duke 20 times. And every time I would look around and I'd be like, yo, like this is Duke. I play at Duke. There's like 10,000 people here. the student, like we sold out every game we played, like every, we might've played every home game for sure. And we might've only had two or three road games that weren't sold out if that. So there was just like a ton of eyes everywhere. And at Duke and in Durham, they value like basketball so highly. And so they were just eyes everywhere, media coverage everywhere, cameras everywhere. And it was a real test to me for how focused I can stay on like keeping the main thing, the main thing, because they were, the pressures were there every time the eyes are there every time. And somehow you still got to perform and you got to understand, I was nervous. Like the beginning of every game, I was nervous that I was going to drop the first time I touched the ball or airball my first shot, like every time. And it was so crazy. It never, like it never stopped. And for the first 60 seconds of every game, I'm like, Oh shoot. Like I played at Duke. I'm going to like, something's going to happen here. but then I would settle and everything would be fine. But it was just, it was incredible. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_00: 37:34

Oh my gosh. Did you and your teammates have like a certain pregame ritual that like always got you in like the sweet spot to go out and play?

SPEAKER_01: 37:44

Not specifically, but we had the, I mean, we had a very deep team culture that just like prioritized, like enjoying yourself and doing your job. and doing your job, not just for yourself, but for the people around you. So it was funny. Like we were also really good, right? We were really talented. That made it easier. But we would like, you could always see us like joking around during pregame warmups or laughing at something or like playing one-on-one when we're supposed to be warming up or shooting or something. And that was just kind of the DNA of our team. And that's what made the experience so much. But then when we got on the court, we just kind of had a, it was really natural. We just naturally knew when to focus and come together. And like they called the Duke basketball team, the brotherhood. And that's like, I thought it was just a saying, but it's, it's really real because we would come together before every game and be like, all right, everyone here has a job, whether you play 40 minutes or you play zero minutes, we all have a job to do. Go do your job and don't do it for yourself, but do it for the guy next to you and have fun doing it. And we had a lot of fun doing it.

SPEAKER_00: 38:55

Yeah, I mean, heck, that was quite the run that you guys had. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, you played in the final four, Sian. That's like, that's a...

SPEAKER_01: 39:08

Mac, that was crazy. Like, out of all the basketball games I've played in my entire life, that was insane. Because I'm looking around and like, it's 70,000 people in the place. 70,000 is so many people. And I knew that, but I knew it in a different way when I'm up there and I can look and I can count one, two, three, four, 70,000. Like there's a lot of people there. And the court was

SPEAKER_02: 39:32

like

SPEAKER_01: 39:33

elevated. So it felt like we were performing on a stage. Yes, nuts.

SPEAKER_00: 39:40

It was elevated?

SPEAKER_01: 39:41

Yeah, the court's probably like four feet off the ground. So if you look at the benches next to the court, you can see you have to take like two big steps down to get to the bench. And I think it's something, it's like a health thing. I think they had the court elevated so that you can like break whatever it's for health and health purposes, basically. So that you can like soften the area under the court instead of just putting it bare on the ground. But yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 40:08

it felt like we were in a,

SPEAKER_01: 40:09

it felt like we were in a, like we were truly like on stage and talk about being nervous, man. I said, I'm definitely going to air ball. time I'm definitely gonna dribble it off my foot I'm definitely something it was crazy I was so nervous

SPEAKER_00: 40:27

oh my gosh that is yeah how did you how did you like handle those nerves they ever go away like is there do you just go back to kind of what you're used to doing or are you just saying just do the work or at that point like Were you relying on your teammates or your coaches? Did your coaches tell you guys anything to try to pull you out of it? Or what happened there?

SPEAKER_01: 40:52

By the time we got to the Final Four, we had an entire season of practicing what it was like to play in front of people and still find a way to calm yourself down. But I'm telling you, every game, the day of the game, leading up to the game, there's this anxiety building. Every single time, it never went away until the game started. And then by that point, you realize that I've done the work already. I've prepared for this. This is either going to go really well or maybe it's not. And either way, I will be fine. Life is okay. Life will go on. But I put in enough work that I can trust that this game will go good or that will play well or that whatever the situation will be. And we practiced as a team, we practiced how to develop that mindset in stressful situations. And then as we went on, we got more and more experience through the year. So by the time we were in the final four, the nerves were heightened. But after a while, we got settled in and recognized it was just a game. We're still playing a game just like we played 40 of them together this year.

SPEAKER_00: 41:54

Right. Yeah. I mean, it seems like such a simple thing or simple mindset to have. It's just a game. But it's something that... we all have to remind ourselves at the end of the day, like it's something we do. It's not something we are, you know, but it's just like, it's like the most fundamental thing that we often forget. And it's like the cause of every spiral, every thought. And it's just, but it's crazy how literally like you're a perfect example of just like simplifying it. Like this is in the end, like this is a game. Like I started this to have

SPEAKER_01: 42:31

fun. And it was, I told you it was not always like this for sure. This past year at Duke helped me to understand that on a deeper level. Like they used to always tell us, like you chose to do this. Like you're currently choosing to do this. Like you can leave. Nobody is forcing you to be here. You asked, like you literally asked for this. There's going to be challenges that come with that, but you're playing at Duke. You knew exactly what you were walking into and you asked for it. And when I kind of realized that sometimes, like, yeah, this is hard, but like, Little Sion is in here, like loving it, like eight year old Sion, because this was his dream. And you're right. I did ask for this. I did put my Jersey on today and nobody was there telling me to do it. Right. Like I did. So kind of when I, when I started to really realize and embrace that, it helped me to simplify, try to like basically take away all the other stuff that distracts us from what the game is and from being able to do our job on the court. Because it is just a game, but it's also a livelihood. And it's something that I find immense joy out of. And it would be unfair to simplify it down to it's just a game. It's more than that. But the act that we're doing is a game. And I try to allow it to just be that in the moment.

SPEAKER_00: 43:52

It sounds like it to me. But did the coaching staff at Duke, did they kind of prioritize mental health or... Did the team work with like any sports psychologists or what did the coaches often talk to you about it or was it kind of just something that you dealt with on your own or with your teammates?

SPEAKER_01: 44:11

The coaches 100% prioritize mental health. It was like our head coach and many of our assistant coaches played at Duke. So they understand the pressures. They understand the stressors. They understand the like the mental side of what it means to play there. And just the mental side of what it means to be a performance athlete, not just in college, but like a performance athlete in general. And they recognize that we are only going to be as good as our mind be no matter what we did physically. So not only did they like help us and talk us through a lot of the mental side of it, they hired a guy. He was essentially our mental coach for the year. His name is Russ Roush and he traveled with us every once in a while and he would come to Durham every few weeks. He would just talk us through something related to the mental side of playing at Duke and just being a performance athlete. He has an app called Vision Pursue where they have different... He was big on meditations and stuff too. He would send us different meditations and stuff to do, take us through all kinds of breathing exercises. Essentially, what he was doing is training us to think in a certain way when stressors are heightened and the stressors of being on a college campus or being the cases. And that was something that we kind of embraced as a team.

SPEAKER_00: 45:34

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I love, I'm going to check out his app. You're gonna have to text me the name of that.

SPEAKER_01: 45:40

It's great. Russ, Russ wouldn't be happy to know, but I forgot to do a few days, like a 60 day program. I should have had this done in like October, but I would go a few days and I'm like, Oh, this is great. And then I'd forget about it. And then I would come back and, um, but it's awesome. We used to talk to Russ all the time, still do. And he's just, he understands what it means to like be a performance athlete. And I'm very thankful for coach Shire and all the coaches did is too. I should mention coach Shire was, he was, he wanted to make sure that everyone in the, everyone in the program got the mental training we needed.

SPEAKER_00: 46:14

Yeah. That's awesome. I think having coaches that also played like exactly the in your shoes essentially is such a huge deal because they know exactly what you're going through. And I mean, you can, you really can't, you can't beat that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:35

Yeah. Like I told you, I was all nervous to play against Carolina and coach Cyrus played them like played or coached against him like 30-something times in his career. So he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just get this done. Let's do it. I already know what the emotions are. I know you guys are nervous. I know you guys are hype. I know you guys are this and all that. But I've done this 30-something times. Here's what it's going to be. Here's how we can be better before it. And that's just such a unique

SPEAKER_00: 47:00

thing to have. Speaking of him, I read another thing and I was like, that's such a good way to describe Sion. He described you as the connector. on the team. And I was like, that is such a good descriptive word for Sion. What do you think he meant by that? And did you realize that that was maybe the role they saw you in? Like others were looking up to you to be that quote unquote connector?

SPEAKER_01: 47:28

Honestly, he used to use that term with me all the time and I had no idea what it meant. And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, connector for sure. And there was one time I had to sit down and ask him like, bro, what are you talking about? What are you referring to? And it turns out it's a term that has its roots on and off the court. On the court, it's someone that just gets the ball where it needs to go. You've got your guys who shoot it really well, your guys who handle it, your guys who do whatever. And I'm basically the one that allows both of them to do what they do at the highest level. And it's not something we ever really talked about coming in, but it's a role that I definitely settled into. And it's a role that I've more or less had in different stages throughout my career, whether or not I've had the vocabulary to define it as that. And then off the court, it's a lot of the same, like being a vet for the young guys who haven't played in college before, but also being a friend to the guys who have been there before, being someone who just has a different perspective from all of my teammates and someone that we can relate to in different ways. So I think it's a pretty cool term now that I finally understand it.

SPEAKER_00: 48:45

Good. I'm glad you finally got that definition clear.

SPEAKER_01: 48:49

It took a while. I'm telling you, it took months.

SPEAKER_00: 48:53

But also really quick, because it just came to my mind, this is so random. Did you ever figure out who made that shrine for you? Like for those listening, Sian, I'm on, so Sian has a, there's a private Instagram story. And I'm so lucky enough that I'm on this and I get to see like all these behind the scenes. I'm like, this is great. Like, I feel like I'm like part of the club, you know? And see on one, this was like middle of the season. Someone made a shrine, a shrine of him, like outside, outside where the basketball stadium. And it's like a picture of your face and like candles. And I'm like, what is, what is going on? I think I messaged you and I was like, wow. The pipeline from Tulane to Duke is crazy because you would not catch a shrine of Sion in New

SPEAKER_01: 49:38

Orleans. So we need some context here. We need some context. This probably sounds insane. It's not as crazy as it sounds. Let me explain. Leading up to the game, the home game against Carolina, students at Duke camp out to get tickets for the game. Like, literally... like tense

SPEAKER_00: 49:59

on the quad. This was crazy to me too. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 50:03

it's, it's nuts. And now that I was there, it's even crazier. Like there's thousands, there's a thousand something students sleeping outside the gym every day for a month leading up to the Carolina. Pence have different themes. So there were, and most of the themes are based on players or players names or the coaches or just someone in the program. Just like, and these are like the biggest Duke fans because they have to take a, 70 question test about the players and coaches like where are they from and that kind of stuff it's a lot more it's like

SPEAKER_00: 50:37

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 50:38

one one of the questions i found hilarious was they asked what one of the guys um date to prom was wearing in like a picture they found on instagram from like 2018 they found yeah like it was crazy just super detailed so you basically had to stalk all the players and become a uh a crazy like a crazy fan which we all loved it it's awesome but one of the themes um has i forgot exactly what the name of that tent was but it was like something sion related i think it was the

SPEAKER_02: 51:15

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 51:16

it was the church of of siontology as in like a play on like church of scientology whatever so that they had a shrine a shrine to see on with all this other stuff And I actually met a lot of, I met a lot of them. They were cool. I thought the tent was crazy, but they were really cool. We took pictures. We had coffee. It was great, but it was, uh, it was something I'll tell you that.

SPEAKER_00: 51:39

That's really funny. Okay. I didn't have that extra context. So I'm glad you, I'm glad you let that out there. Cause I literally to this day for months, I was just thinking like, wow, like, Duke's on another level. Like they literally make shrines after their players. I'm like, wow, this is crazy. This is nuts. Oh my gosh. Anyway, that was a, that was a side side question. I just, I had to get answered. It was like, who made this? Who made this? Oh my gosh. Okay. So now you are in Houston, right? Right now you're training for the draft. And obviously last week you were in Chicago. Like we talked about doing all that. What is next for you? Is it just training for now until July when the actual draft happens? Or what's the next steps?

SPEAKER_01: 52:29

Yeah. So for right now, it's just team workouts. So I'm in Houston with some other guys that are doing draft workouts through our agency. And we're doing shooting workouts, lifts, and everything every day just to be in shape. Because at any point, teams can call and schedule workouts. They say, we want you to fly out to LA and work out for us or fly out to whatever city and work out in our facility with some other guys that are, that will be competing for the same draft picks basically. So the idea is that you want to be as ready as you can for those. And I've got a few coming up in the next month or so. And then the drafts in at the end of June. And by then it's, it's time to be a professional basketball player, the dream come true. Thankfully, I'm in a position where I have the chance to hear my name called. If I do, that'd be incredible because, like I said, it's a dream. But either way, being a professional basketball player is something that... Who would have ever known that I'd actually get the chance?

SPEAKER_00: 53:32

Right. And just know, Lisa and Bruce, my parents, will be watching that draft on TV. You can bet. If you have two super fans... They're downstairs right

SPEAKER_02: 53:48

now. They will be watching.

SPEAKER_00: 53:50

They will be watching. Oh my gosh. Well, anyway, I've already taken up so much of your time, but I always like to end every single conversation with the same question. And that is if you were to talk to little Sion, little, little eight year old Sion, when he first started playing basketball, what would you tell your little self?

SPEAKER_01: 54:15

I would just tell them to go all in and have fun with it. Looking back, there was so much time, not starting that young, but as I got older, I spent so much time stressed and anxious playing basketball where I started the game because it was fun. And because I guess I was forced to, thanks mom and dad, but at some point I had fun doing it, which is why I continued. And there have been points... since then where I've lost that joy and finding it again has been like the most incredible thing and I would just tell him and like don't lose on to this hold on to it everything's going to try to take your attention away from having fun in what you're doing but like hold on to this and make that's what's going to make it worthwhile you don't even know the joys that are around the corner for you and I think that's an awesome thing for eight-year-old Sion to hear

SPEAKER_00: 55:09

thank you guys so much for listening I hope I hope you enjoyed this episode and are leaving with a fresh perspective. Suck It Up is truly a movement, so I urge you to stay up to date by clicking that follow button and sharing this episode with someone who you think will benefit from the message. It's also a community. If you have any comments or ideas for the show, or even if you're just looking for someone to talk to who gets it, reach out to me. Chances are, whatever you're feeling, I've been there too. Also, if you're an athlete looking to tell your story, I'd love to potentially have you on for an episode. We're changing the mental health landscape within elite athletics one conversation at a time, all while making sure we're having some fun doing it. My contact info can be found in the episode notes down below. Remember, my inbox is always open. And be sure to keep an eye out for Seon James in the 2025 NBA draft, June 25th. Until next time.

SPEAKER_02: 56:06

Thank you.